ACCENTS

 

When I hit the big world in the guise of RLS, I was in 1P with boys from Upminster, Brentwood and all points west, and it slowly dawned upon the youthful Howe brain that these kids had considerably more money to tap into than I had. I think, in retrospect, the only effect it had was to make me determined to prove I was their equal, but I believe it demonstrates that there was no attempt to divide by class/background, such niceties remaining firmly outside the scope of an "education". Of course, this was 1966, and the JPC era - when TGB Kingham was inducted, there may indeed have been some such attempt made! (ash howe)

I don't think we were graded by class when I joined RLS but boy did I feel different. (My situation vis-a-vis friends, parents and upbringing were very similar to those mentioned by ash howe but I was just on the other side of the A12).

When I joined RLS in 1951 my Mum and Dad had agreed to contribute half a crown (12 1/2 p to you young ones) a term (or was it a year?) to the school fund. At the beginning of the term at the House class meeting, we were called to the front to donate our contribution. Guess who was the last to hand it in? Even today I cringe at the feeling of the shame/ humiliation of having to make an excuse week on week as to why I hadn't got it. I knew what 2/6 meant to my Mum and how difficult it was for her to find it and the fuss she made every time I reminded her that I had to have the money. It didn't help either being subjected to sarcastic comments from the master. Does anyone know if and when this practice stopped?

Some 15-20 years ago I read a book by a couple of well known academics (but not to me) entitled something like...."The Working Class Child in the Grammar School"). Well it was a revelation, it described me and my feelings to a "T", you can't imagine the relief to know that I was not the only child to have felt this way (or perhaps you can).

I think it was when we were in the fifth form that Graham Haverson of the CCF let off a smoke bomb which shut down Brentwood Road for a while. God bless Graham for giving us all a bloody good laugh. I can still recall the contempt I felt towards the petty minded so-called officers of the CCF (Teachers playing at soldiers). Soon after a notice went up on the CCF board which was laughable if hadn't been so pathetic. It was on the lines of: "Sergeant Haverson has been demoted to Private. Private Haverson has been dismissed the Force" It makes me mad even today that they had to rub his nose it before they kicked him out. I am sure that the RLS turned me into the Bolshy old git that I am today. Having got that of my chest I'm sure my future contributions will be of a more light hearted nature. (David C. Mills)

Phil waved a somewhat unconvincing red flag with: "I felt, even at the age of 11, that we were graded in the first form by the social positions of our parents and backgrounds" Interesting theory, Phil! I imagine that I threw an sizeable spanner into their works, then, with a middle-class-aspiring schoolteacher mother who voted Labour and a salt-of-the-earth working-class gardener father who voted Conservative. Clearly I confused them so much that they gave me the benefit of any doubt and stuck me in 1A. (D.G.Maltby)

I have no recollection of any feeling of 'class' distinction around the allocation to First [1959] Forms. I - happening to be from a comfortable 'middle-class' background (lucky ol' me) - found myself in 1A alongside friends whose Blazers may not have been from the 'top' shop ... but it didn't seem to matter.  We enjoyed each other's company and spent time in each other's homes (large, medium or small) without any problem. I suppose I assumed that the allocation was based on one's ['middle-class' term?] grade in the 11+ exam (UK readers will know that doubt is being cast upon exam grades). (Andy Lee)

 Robin said: "As I remember it the entire first year intake were arrange alphabetically and then placed in forms in order. Thus (assuming 1 surname with A, one with B, one with C etc.):

1A   1B   1C

A    B    C

D    E    F

G    H    I

J    K    L  etc"

I believe this to be correct and thus a random selection of forms. I also never felt any stigma attaching to my 1C status. Perhaps I should have paid more attention to the perceptions of the other 600 or so at school. (David Gregory)

David Mills told us: When I joined RLS in 1951 my Mum and Dad had agreed to contribute half a crown a term (or was it a year?) to the school fund. By 1965 there were 2 funds on the go - see the Blue Book in the library.  There was the Central Fund (Treasurer DG Richards) and the Golden Jubilee Fund started in 1961 (Treasurer JS Smith). The Central Fund must have been the one that was more or less compulsory on a voluntary basis, 5s 0d per term at that time, and to which parents could contribute by Deed of Covenant. For younger HMs, DoC was the forerunner of today's Gift Aid, whereby a tax concession was available to registered charities. I recall announcements in Assembly by Spook on at least one occasion, telling us that, "One penny, per boy, per week would raise a total of..." and so on.  My maths and my memory fade at that point.  I don't know which fund he was promoting at that stage. (Tim Knights)

My first month at R.L.S. was altogether spent in the very lowest of spirits. Coming from preparatory school and not being accepted due to my accent and background, I think I really learned something about human insensitivity, the herd mentality and not least of what importance even a single kind word can sometimes bear. The most obvious vulnerable point was the 'posh' accent.

Though there were also boys who accepted and even liked it, a few imitated it for fun. Even a woodwork master who had (as that dreadful class vernacular had it) 'risen somewhat from the ranks' of local carpenter called me 'Lah-di-dah' and imitated my vowels in a satirical way. One day, however, he made a generous apology to me before the class, saying my classmates had spoken to him to put a word in on my behalf.

After a year I had enough self confidence to dare to drop the occasional 'h' and say 'same' more like 'saime'. But that rigorous and 'low' Romford accent was not allowed by my aunt and uncle. I suppose it was some measure of my outward assimilation, for I had learned 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'. Inwardly, of course, I remained who I was, in many ways an outsider because my experiences made me always view my social surroundings from different and sometimes opposing perspectives. I already knew the causes and quality of friendship and enmity, admiration and jealousy and many such qualities from my several varied backgrounds.

Things did not get off to a good start for me with Mr. M. because he mimicked my way of speaking (I had come straight from prep. school, due to a family crisis etc. and spoke pure RP) Mr. M. However, his exaggerated mimicking did not go down well with the class, a strange silence fell over it. During the next woodwork class, Mr. Marshall came and apologised to me in front of the class, very decently. He said that some boys had spoken to him about it and explained that I was o.k., and I 'couldn't help speaking as I did'. (He had a regular Romford-cum-cockneyish accent - one of the precursors of estuary English, I guess). It made me feel a lot better, of course. I now think it could not have been so easy for whoever did this good turn on my behalf to confront a master, even though he was reckoned as less than a master, as Mike M. correctly remarks (I had forgotten that!).(Robert Priddy)

My parents were evacuated from Plaistow, when the first bomb dropped on London, to Harold Wood (nothing like moving nearer to the enemy). They still speak with that inimitable Cockney East End accent which I copied. I thought nothing of it until I met my (now) wife, Penny - as if you didn't know. She comes from Surré and taught me how to speak more clearly - and there are members who will vouch for my accent, it isn't posh at all. Just understandable. Meantime I cut her glass and we can understand each other well. I still shudder when I hear a recording of my voice (it is so easy to slip back) and I cannot bear to watch East Enders.

Last Sunday, I spent the best part of the day in the A&E in Maidstone. A trolley patient came in shaking and complaining that he couldn't keep anything down and something I simply didn't understand. His diction was appalling, so obvious here in Kent. He repeated his name to the nurse four times. His name was Alan yet the nurses continued to call him David because they didn't understand him. Mind you, they soon worked out he had the DTs.

It might sound snobby but give me a good clean-cut accent any day. I have told my daughters to mimic their Mum not me. Although I have no evidence, I instinctively feel they will get better jobs and other opportunities rather than imitating the loose-jawed, no lip action of our Kentish breed of Estuarine English. Why did they not teach us the importance of good speech at School? (David Silverside)

These days, I am always interested in accents. Having lived in several locations and having become accustomed to local speech, I now find it is often possible to tell someone where he or she originated, in the USA at least. Wicsonsin, Minnesota and western Michigan all have a similar twang, and of course most everyone can detect a New Yorker! If anyone remembers Betty Hutton (the entertainer) I had guessed her as a Michigander one day when someone asked - where was she born! Folks from that area rarely lose their distinctive vowels.

My accent has changed, no doubt about it, but I am still recognized as being British. My siblings and I were fortunate in that, although my parents were both born in London, they never had any touch of the solid Cockney accent that baffles people from North America. They actually sounded quite civilised and we were taught middle English speech at home. Not high brow, just plain speech without battering words to death.

I was in London riding on a bus with my first wife many years ago and the people in front of us were chatting. My wife asked me if I knew which country they were from and I told her from within ten miles of our bus.

A British accent stood a woman in good stead over here in the 50's and 60's, especially in New York. It was the fashion at that time to hire an "English" speaking person as a one-up endeavor.

I often run into tourists here and ask them where they are from. Inevitably they detect an American flavor in my speech (after all I have lived here for 50 years) and they tell me England. I then say I know that but from which area. An amusing game.

I actually sound more British on the phone or on the air and perhaps that is why I get to do quite a lot of broadcasting locally. A change of pace from the natives’ voices.

I do find in general people have become very sloppy in their speech, especially the young who are never (apparently) taught anything concerning a presentable voice and its advantages. We have some local TV people whose voices really grate on my ears. We have schools in the USA that teach people how to lose their strongly accented regional accents.

People who rise to the top here normally speak with a middle-of-the-road accent and I feel inclined to believe their voice in one good reason for their success. Of course I am old fashioned and conservative, and my view is that education has gone to the dogs in so many basic ways. Not that we don't have some terrific youngsters (I used to write the articles about our scholarship winners) and I was always impressed by the scope of learning and the community activities some of these kids involved themselves in. (Geoffrey Styles)

Geoffrey and David both posted regarding accents. I recall that during my school days having an east end accent was not considered very helpful. It seems to me that accents in the US and Latin America are not considered a handicap. People don't look down on those who speak differently. Having a UK accent as Geoffrey mentioned can be a distinct advantage. I used to do commercials and I also hosted a morning show in Puerto Rico. A different accent draws the attention. When speaking Spanish I get caught up with different country accents and this confuses everyone. People will say "are you from Colombia (or Cuba or Argentina). All of which have distinct pronunciation. Best of all though is the surprise on peoples faces when you speak without the oft-heard "gringo" accent which pronounces all of the letters in the word. Most latins swallow the end of words and "Como Estas?" (How are you) becomes "Com 'tas". Having a large vocabulary of curses is also a great advantage. I learned these naturally enough before anything else and if you can spout a few of these, respect follows immediately. They are so expressive! "Molestas mas de una yaga en un testiculo" (He's more of a nuisance than a sore on the knackers) will immediately get attention! (Mike Merry)

These days, accents are not only tolerated but encouraged in schools. We attempt to teach children to speak grammatically correct English rather than try to install an alien plum in their mouths. I believe this to be the correct approach. Regional dialects are part and parcel of our - and, indeed, any - culture and their preservation is important.

Problems arise in the way the language manifests itself from area to area. 'Estuary' teachers face an uphill battle to stop children saying, e.g. 'We was . . .', 'We done. . .', 'Can I have them pencils?' etc. etc. Teachers in the north struggle with the abbreviated 'T'' for 'The'. The biggest drawback is when these local peculiarities are transferred into written work, which is, unfortunately, all too common. Test papers are not necessarily marked locally and the vernacular is frowned upon by those who do not hear it regularly yet see it put before them for judgement. (Ray Liddard)

I must say that I agree with Ray Liddard about preserving local and regional accents. My dear sweet Barbara (got to be mushy sometimes) was born and raised in Tallahassee. She is as Southern as they come, both in speech and cuisine. I find her voice music to my ears as she has soft and gentle tones, unless she is sorely upset.

However, some of her nieces and nephews, also Southern and local, lean more towards the "redneck" style of speech which does not sit prettily upon my ears. My English niece, who married a super chap from Newcastle (and now lives in Whitley Bay), says she cannot understand her husband when he gets with his family. Elizabeth was born and raised in Gidea Park and no doubt copied her speech from my sister and her father. Her husband is no doubt captive to his background. Why change if you can be understood, no matter your origin.

One thing I always find interesting is the use of local idioms such as - we might could do that! I first heard that when I was in Macon (GA) with a good friend (a retired Marine Major) and asked him if we could go back to a good restaurant where we had eaten lunch the month before. I smiled even more widely when Barbara used that same expression soon after I met her. No chaps, it was not what you might think.

I do not try to teach my students (I have mentioned I volunteer as an English teacher to new Americans and foreign FSU students) to speak as I do. I teach them to pronounce words in a manner with which they are comfortable and to understand their meaning. I have always enjoyed the foreign flavor of a non-English person speaking English.

I was highly amused by Mike Merry's acquisition and use of Spanish "bad words". One of my Chinese ladies asked me one day to teach her "bad words" as she called them. I put together a long list and went over them with her (solo and in my best clinical manner) and she absorbed the lot (and kept the list). She told me she wanted them for her husbands' benefit - to use or receive I did not ask.

Sadly, and agreeing with Ray once again, I deplore the custom of young people (16-25??) using really nasty words as punctuation in their speech. My mother always told me if you have to swear then you have a poor vocabulary. I agree with her. I spent three years in the Army, twenty-six years with contractors and have heard it all, but I don't use the stuff. (Geoffrey Styles)

I am probably somewhat out of touch with the current situation in UK as to accents/dialects. Though I visit often, I do not fit into current preconceptions (if they are anything like they were) as - after 41 years mainly in Norway - I speak an almost unidentifiable kind of 'international ‘RP' (my own jargon?). People in England have a problem placing me at all, but that they often try also shows how important a part of a person's identity can be tied up with this, doesn't it? The accent question there still seems a bit inflamed (class feeling, status etc.). Because of Norway's relative classlessness, this is not at all as intense here, despite many strong local dialects and even an ongoing mental war between the two chief official sub-languages (bokmål or nynorsk) for predominance as the true Norwegian.

You (David. S) wrote: "It might sound snobby but give me a good clean-cut accent any day." I do feel rather the same, but dialects are/were very colourful and have interesting roots, so their gradual watering down or disappearance due to TV and social mobility also seems quite a loss to me. Perhaps the English (soon an all-singing, all-dancing race living off nothing but the media?) are compensating by becoming 'multi-dialectical', for most people I know seem able to imitate several dialects very well. It is interesting to me that Geordie has become accepted in England at long last... I used to practise it when on holiday in Shields with my grandparents. (Auuu, haddaway an' shyte, man). (Robert P)

It seems to me that WW II changed many things in the UK. Up until that time all BBC announcers had to have voices that met a similarly high standard and many of them were very alike in tone and almost identical in pronunciation.

A big break came when a regional accent was allowed, I think for the very first time, under the name (if my memory serves me correctly) of Wifred Pickles. He was possessed of a North country voice and perhaps he was number one in the winds of change.

Until that time, one only heard Lancashire and Yorkshire accents in the voices of entertainers, such as George Formby, Gracie Fields, Tommy Handley and so on. I am quite sure many of the men on this net have no knowledge of the above. However in the deep dark days of the big war those people kept our spirits up and at 8:30 p.m. on a Tuesday evening, all England (it seemed) stopped to hear the ITMA show - It's That Man Again.

I am fortunate enough to have some tapes of some of the shows and believe me, they sure sound dated today! One thing that surprises me is the speed of delivery of the dialog. I always thought Americans spoke quickly but with ITMA on tape, one really has to listen very closely.

Personally I have always enjoyed hearing people of Irish, Welsh or Scottish birth speaking English. My deceased sister-in-law was from County Wicklow and her accent was quite like music to my ears. (Geoffrey Styles)