C.C.F. (CADETS) & THEIR CAMPS
I think the boat disappeared even before the demise of the naval section (or it may have been left at the mooring at Hullbridge over the summer of 1971, and never returned to the school for its normal winter servicing). I don't recall having to organise the cleaning rota during my stint as PO.
The boat was generally in a pretty messy condition at the start of the season and I, too, remember like you scraping and smacking off barnacles with wooden wedges (a slip meant gouged and grazed knuckles). We seemed to spend more time cleaning the boat than actually sailing. The boat was a good size and could comfortably accommodate 10 or so of us. We normally sailed the boat at Hullbridge, occasionally at Burnham. The number of days sailing per year was fairly restricted as the river there is tidal, and most of the time is sludgy mud. onsequently it was rare to have a field day with our boat, as the constraints of transport, tide and school hours would have meant a very short day sailing. In general, sailing on field days was usually at Cheshunt, on a rather too tame lake (no tide, and surrounded by trees so that there wasn't any wind either), with a choice of Coypu or Mirror dinghies.
There was one wonderful mishap that happened on one of those days at Cheshunt. CPO Flowers, as usual, had turned up for his usual jaunt with the lads. There was one peculiarity about CPO Flowers - no matter what the planned activities of the day he always turned up in full dress uniform, everything gleaming. Personally I always preferred sailing coypus, so I was out somewhere on the lake, not far from the shore, in one with one or two other crew. I presume Flowers had never encountered a Mirror dinghy before (I somehow doubt he had ever been on anything smaller than a frigate), because, when invited by Wiggins to get aboard the mirror dinghy that he was readying, Flowers placed his full weight on the starboard side, just behind the bows. The predictable happened, the notoriously unstable Mirror gave its bucking bronco reaction and Flowers descended at a rate of knots into a few fathoms of icy water, and in true movie fashion his gleaming white hat was left floating on the surface. If I remember correctly, Wiggins escaped the ducking, shame really - could have had 2 for the price of 1. (Pete Isaacs)
The CCF Colour! Another "first" for the Liberty (please note Andy!) the Colour's very first use after its inception and dedication (or whatever they do) and that's us practising for the Remembrance Day parade, must be 1961.
Yeah, power crazy all right! As NCO i/c Colour Party not only did I give orders to the three gentlemen in front of me, but we had to keep the ENTIRE Parade waiting each time there was an order to change direction (not my fault or idea) but, apparently, in a colour party the Senior Service (Navy for all you non-CCF types) must always be on the right of the colour so you can't do right- or left- or about-turns, you have to do a left or right FORM. This meant that some Colonel or other would order the Parade to do something and then have to wait for my "Form" order! - Great fun! ...and, in the background, Oscar's car behind the Naval cadet! ...and look at the creases in those trousers and the polish on the boots! Smart or what! ...and the best part of all? The banner-carrying cadet is none other than Andy Bowman - head boy in the 1962 picture! I enjoyed ordering HIM about! The RAF bloke was Joel (That's his surname - I've forgotten his first name) and the Navy bloke is Godfrey? (David Maltby)
... from this week`s local paper (October 1999). "Romford`s Royal Liberty School literally received a flying visit from the Royal Navy. A lynx helicopter from 702 Naval Air Squadron flew to the Upper Brentwood Road School from Yeovil in Somerset, where its crew briefed 16 yr. old pupils about naval careers. Pupils were also shown around the helicopter." Good grief. `Tiddles` would have been beside himself. I used to watch the Air C.C.F. running around with the glider, but I never saw it in the air. It was rumoured to have flown once, but no-one I knew had witnessed it, probably just wishful thinking on Tiddles` part. (Tony Harrison)
Like all the rest I could never pass up a chance to "put one over" on particular members of staff - even at certain cost to myself. This saga involves probably my second deadliest enemy - Scrooge Morris (although we never called him that, I like it!!) and a pupil who shall remain anonymous! Reference has been made to "bespectacled twerps" and this individual sported a pair of the thickest lenses ever seen. He had joined the cadets and had NEVER been known to hit a target either on the .22 range or when we were out on Rainham or Wennington Marshes on the .303 ranges (proper shooting!) - seriously, NEVER EVER did he put a single bullet on a target. Late in my cadet career - the year when it was generally considered that I might be favourite to win the prized Gotaas Cup, Scrooge was the firing line officer i/c ammunition and I was NCO delegated to distribute the same - one clip of five per cadet per round. All had to be accounted for - by Morris! With such a dozy (and "green") officer in charge it was the simplest thing for me to secrete five extra clips of ammo about my person and to arrange that my firing position was at the end of the range furthest from Morris and two places away from A.N. Other. Instead of loading one clip I loaded two on each round, then fired off five shots at MY target in double quick time before more carefully putting five in the bull or inner of the bespectacled one's! I'm certain that Scrooge never worked out what was going on although he knew, but didn't admit, that the ammo check didn't tally and he was aware of the hilarity from the non-shooting detail when the butts markers kept signalling the hits! Inevitably the joke rebounded. I kissed the cup goodbye and the anonymous one scored more than I did!! ...but it was worth it! (David Maltby)
Were any group members in the CCF? Recalling this has reminded me of more members of staff. In overall charge was Alan "Aggie" Guy who was elevated from Captain to Major while I was at school. Can't remember what he taught but I think it might have been history. "Harry" Askew - Geography - was another army officer but he left to take a headship in Newcastle in about 1959/60 (The school First XI went on a two game tour up there in 1961/62) "Don" Jennings - PE teacher before Pete Benson was a navy officer and I think Pete took over from him. "Tiddles" Tydeman was one RAF officer but I think there was another. The annual trophy for marksmanship always amused me - the "Gotaas Cup for Musketry"! - one I always intended to win but my sense of humour got in the way the one year I really had a chance. Long story, I'll save it for another post. There was another bloke called Morris who was involved with the army but I can't remember his nickname or what he taught. (David Maltby)
No - you didn't imagine it, though it was (I think) the following
year from basic training camp - after we had joined the naval section proper
and didn't have to mix with the pongos. I seem also to remember anchoring at Salcombe, and anyone who wanted to go ashore was free to do
so, but there was a catch. We had to
swim for it. The boat was actually a Fleet Tender, not a minesweeper, called
HMS Alnmouth. Taking her out the first day it was
as you describe - a fabulous bouncy day, and we had to take turns at the wheel,
sending her about 20 degrees from the direction of the waves. I can still remember the technique of throwing
the wheel starboard and letting the waves back the nose round to port - it
all had to be done in sync for when a big one was about to hit. Since that day I have got an immense respect
for people who have to earn their living from smaller boats than that one.
(Pete Isaac)
Derek continued "I’m sure this is me as I remember
going to summer camp somewhere in Devon/Cornwall around this time. It was near Bodmin Moor, I recall, and fairly close to Newquay ."If
memory serves correctly it was Penhale camp near Newquay. Penhale is an abandoned village that has been overrun by
sand-dunes, and subsequently the army.
There is a small chapel there mostly covered by the sand - entry into
the church required swimming across a small pond and a lot of tugging at the
door. There was about 3-4 feet of water
in the church while we were there.
Derek continued:- " I
distinctly remember somebody being shot at close range with a blank and we all
got a serious boll*cking from the officers." We
got the same after another incident during the camp. We had been due to go to
spend one night under canvas somewhere on the moor, however, it had been
hammering with rain non-stop and the officers (I think) chickened out. It was hastily arranged that we would instead
stay in a castle that was partly run by the army (Tintallen? Tintagel? TinTinAndSnowy?). The opportunity
to climb up onto the roof/ battlements was just too tempting, as was dropping
pebbles down the chimneys, a few seconds after which there was an audible
"PLOMBF" as they reached the end of their fall amidst the soot they
had collected on the way down. aaahh
- simple pleasures. (Pete Isaac)
When I left the CCF it was Tiddles
I had to advise. I think that Dickie Baxter was running
the Army section at the time. I didn't stay on in the Corps through the 6th as
I wanted to grow my hair longer (under JPC ?!?!?!)
and, at the time, believed in love and peace. What a dick-head I was. (Nothing
much changes!). You must remember that
Amongst the CCF Camp pictures I believe I've spotted myself at the back of the picture next to Messrs. Tydeman and Benson in No. 8 top with a black CCF beret and named as A.N Other (RN). I’m sure this is me as I remember going to summer camp somewhere in Devon/Cornwall around this time. It was near Bodmin Moor, I recall, and fairly close to Newquay . I distinctly remember somebody being shot at close range with a blank and we all got a serious boll*cking from the officers. This has ,of course, brought back many fond memories of my brief time in the Naval Section of the CCF that I'd almost forgotten (and where I acquired the nick-name of 'Peardrop ' - I assume this was not because of my sweet and innocent nature! . At first I loved every minute of it, especially all the bullsh*t and polishing of brass, but it left me with much more. Thanks to Pete Benson and co. I gained an independence and inner sense of moral duty/pride that school could not teach me. I got into this big time. I would spend hours cleaning my gear to get it just right and was very proud to wear the uniform (although very ill-fitting).
My parents too were equally proud,
especially when I won the Cadet of the Year Trophy (can't remember the year).
Camps were great, as I'd never been away from home before, and introduced me to
things like sailing, shooting and survival etc. We spent hours cleaning;
varnishing and generally preparing the school boat (anyone remember that?) to
go sailing up the Blackwater. I remember rowing for
miles along the
I was saddened to hear from 'Piggy' Isaac's posting that the
CCF folded not long after I left, but am not surprised as two momentous events
had occurred and it was no longer fashionable to be associated with the
military; the 'Summer of Love' and the growing anti-Vietnam movement that
changed our generation's culture radically. Shame though, sometimes I think I
came very close to joining the Navy for real. Once I'd escaped the RLS I had a
strange visit one evening from a Naval CPO and stunning - looking Wren who
wanted to interview me as to why I'd never joined up. They almost persuaded me
to apply to
Also a keen CCF member who went on to greater things in life
was TGB Bill "Scourge" Bowman. He retired from the Navy with a high
rank (and probably a pension to match, lucky sod) and
now lives in
By the time the 66ers came of age, Dan Guy had ceased his involvement with the cadets. However, I do remember one or two references to him as Colonel Guy by other masters. Was this really his rank? If so, I would be interested to know how this amiable, if somewhat befuddled, gent came to such a rank. (Pete Isaac)
To the best of my hazy memory, Harry Askew was the CO as a captain and Aggie Guy was lieutenant, 3 pips and 2 pips respectively. (Phil Kingham)
After Harry A left (summer '58?), Aggie was a Captain and
(according to the Alumni) in 61/62 was promoted to Major. One wonders what he
(or any other masters) did to gain promotion in the CCF. Stormed
When I was in the Army Section of the CCF he was a Major with Captain Baxter assisting. Peter French's Dad later joined as a Lieutenant. (Robin Hackshall)
When I was left school in 1960 Aggy was an (Army) Captain, and was, I think, the senior officer of the CCF, though Spider Webber may have been a Flight Lieutenant. (Pete Pearson)
Richard Marsh asked about DGM's sheep: Post 1455 describes the incident. Here is an extract: "Omigod! As soon as I read this bit, I knew what was coming next! a sheep in the neighbouring field No, come on, fair play! That was no NEIGHBOURING field. It was no less than THREE large fields away - BEHIND the butts!
That was no mean feat of marksmanship. If I remember rightly we were shooting at 200 yards and I adjusted my sights to 1400 yards, swivelling about 30 degrees to my right to make that shot - all under the eagle eye (hah!) of "Scrooge" Morris. Personally I was of the opinion that that single shot was deserving of the award of the "Gotaas Cup for Musketry" for that year, but the "powers that be" disagreed. Were you on the firing step beside me? I remember muttering to my neighbour, after I'd lined up the shot, "Watch that sheep" but I can't remember who it was. Also, being no mathematician (!) small matters of "muzzle velocity", "distance of travel", "time elapsed" etc were like a foreign language to me and I was amazed at the inordinately long time between pulling the trigger and seeing the target drop! That was the same day that I blew my chance of collecting said cup by indulging my sense of humour with a myopic guy we nick-named "Alphonse". I wasn't going to mention the sheep on the list - simply because they'd never have believed it! There, in the words of DGM himself, is the story. (Mike Merry)
Ad. "...didn't we used to have
field days at RLS?" Oh, by the Lord Harry we did! Coachloads of cadets descending on
the wilds of South Weald or
In the ensuing melees the cadets all got muddy and fairly annoyed with each other when "dead" people insisted on getting up and re-joining the battle while Aggie Guy used to disport himself throwing thunderflashes at a safe distance from the cadets. (David Maltby)
Talking of the CCF, I can recall some hilarious events on
the annual Camps, to places like
This was when someone who broke his leg on a 50 mile march was left to wait for
24hrs in a ditch until help arrived. Or when (Aggie) Guy
decided to rotate all the road direction posts on a map reading exercise,
hoping to confuse us all.
Does anyone remember the Old, old Land Rover that was used at school for army
maintenance instruction. This was resurrected from the dead by a couple of us
and we were subsequently caught by Coles as we drove around the grounds. High
Trees was quite exciting!!
Whatever happened to (Jim) Heaton? He was our Latin teacher, and I can recall
his everlasting ginger tweed suit he always wore and the habit he had, being so
tall, of standing by your desk with one foot on the desk lid!!! Or of Mr
Franklin the art teacher who once lifted a boy out of his chair by the ears for
swearing in class! Oh happy days. (Malcolm Damon)
I remember D. Collins not only as Head Boy but also as Sgt. major or other such title in the CCF. We once went camping
in
Any other ex-cadets see the coverage of Rainham marshes and the old rifle ranges on TV evening news tonight? Twenty years of neglect have left the butts looking rather decrepit, but the area is now officially a bird sanctuary. One VERY nostalgic shot of butt number 1 brought back memories...and not a sheep in sight. (DGM)
At the annual army camp in Folkestone (why _did_ we always go there?) it was discovered that there was a "re-select" button at the back of the juke box. You could listen to a complete single and press this just before the needle lifted to enjoy another free tune. Not a clever move if the NAAFI person was watching! Almost as silly as a fifteen year old in a two sizes too large army uniform, which proudly stated not only that you were at school but which one, attempting to buy beer! Still, we persevered. (Chris Broadbridge)
I did a gliding course at RAF Hornchurch in the summer of
1956. Wearing CCF uniform, I was refused
a beer in the NAAFI but the barmaid said, without prompting, that I could have
a cider. (J. Alan Smith)
The closure of RAF Hornchurch and the subsequent relocation of 614 Gliding School to Debden was one of the greater pieces of vandalism of the 1960s. Many times I had cause to regret this, usually while stuck in the back of that poxy cadet van on the way to Debden or North Weald. (John Bailey)
Re. Steve Bell, I can still hear Ted Edwards yelling on a
CCF parade (and Ted could certainly yell, couldn't he?) the memorable phrase
"
In those uniforms we ALL looked like pregnant dustbins. How ever did our fathers win a war dressed like that? Yes Ted could yell, what a loss to the military when he went to BT, AFAIR he didn't even join the Territorials. A bit like Keith Joels, got a flying scholarship with the RAF CCF and didn't bother doing the extra couple of hours to get a PPL. Strange decisions one makes in immediate post-puberty. (Chris Broadbridge)
I don't know how many of you are familiar with the storing
of files. I also wonder if you are aware of the millions of items that were
scanned from actual paper reports and warehoused on tape reels and Cray data
bases. Believe me, you WOULDN'T believe it! Pirbright, for example.
Reports were typed out which cover each input of Cadets. Somehow or the other
in their wisdom, the Army scanned these in (as far as I can tell) 1972 and they
are in British Army Records which are held at Hayes in Middlesex. These files
are not generally accessible. They contain items as far back as 1914 and go
through 1992 (when filed were stored by individual units) To continue though,
these files quote as attendees, as well as D. Maltby
and D Humphrey from RLS, a certain B. Boswell and P. Cowling, who, if I am
correct, are members of this list. Now a question for
DGM. In the RSM's report filed at the end of
the course which lists daily events and how they were dealt with, outstanding
cadets, prizes etc. there is an incident regarding a verbal report from a L/cpl Maltby D. regarding
discipline being "unofficially" applied to a cadet for littering in
the shared areas of his platoon and being generally untidy in his personal
habits. The report seems to be missing pages and no name is mentioned. I am
wondering how the culprit was disciplined and was he also a member of this
list?
I hope I am not embarrassing anyone with these items but I find they make very
interesting reading if one has the time and inclination (as well as the access)
to pursue certain trails. (Mike Merry)
I wonder if anybody was as acutely aware as I was with regard to the 'separation' between years at RLS. I guess it was down to the fact that a year is a long time when you're 13.
Hey, wait a minute, I've just read the e-mail from Mr Merry regarding the Pirbright records. Fascinating to know I'm on Army records. Even more fascinating that my little misdemeanour is recorded. Yes, folks, I was that litterer (or was it loiterer) in Mr Maltby's tent. Actually, the truth of the matter is, DGM ordered me to clean my metal dinner plate with the stuff we used for our brasses and I refused. He promptly reported me. What he doesn't know to this day was that I overheard him telling Aggie in the officers hut whilst I was returning from the latrine (this was, by now the second week and I was beginning to enjoy crapping for other people's pleasure). So I already knew that I was in deep doo-doo when I was summoned. I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason L/Cprl Maltby suddenly became a full Corporal was because he snitched on a fellow squaddie. A non-commissioned officer and not a gentlemen! But that's all water under the bridge now isn't it David? I'll only add that it blighted the rest of my life and left me with an affliction to Dura-Glit. (Derek Humphrey)
I remember the occasion well! Competition was fierce among the six platoons for the Top Platoon title and one cadet in my platoon constantly fed on sweets and was more than careless with the wrappers! Regarding the unofficial discipline (I prefer to term it "peer pressure") I am fairly confident that I would have delegated that to my 2i/c who, though he is on record as denying all memory of this camp, was Peter Cowling. Let me remind him that he was promoted to Lance Corporal at the end of that week!
I would imagine that the "discipline" would have
involved boot blacking and brushes but NOT boots! Do I need to elaborate? However, I would NOT
have made any report of these proceedings - and certainly not to the RSM who
was a jumped-up and supercilious b*st*rd from
For example Aggie passed on to us a complaint, made early in the week, by the senior Bec officer that one of our platoons had marched past him without saluting. Silly, petty man! Six RLS platoon leaders thereupon made a point of searching out ALL the Bec officers at every opportunity all week and bored them silly with returning our salutes as RLS platoons were marched and countermarched past them throwing Eyes Lefts and Eyes Rights for fun! (David Maltby)
Ok David I rise to the bait. You are roughly right but as I remember it the cause and effect were the other way round. I can only imagine that if you had been a bit faster stripping the bren gun and a bit more accurate with your compass bearings, not only would you have reached, at least, the dizzy heights of Sergeant and CSM but you would also have become a BP and, who knows, Captain of your beloved House!
Your assertion that Roy Woolley's
rank of Warrant Officer in the RAF Section was more senior than CSM is
definitely wrong, wrong, wrong! Absolutely untrue!
Categorically a slur on the exalted rank of CSM! I am sure that
"Actually, the truth of the matter is, DGM ordered me to clean my metal dinner plate with the stuff we used for our brasses and I refused."
This has not lodged in my memory. But, readily accepting that my memory is not infallible, I can but suggest that the reason for this would have been to find SOME useful purpose for your brass cleaning stuff!
Ah! The light dawns! Forty years too late but the writing was on the wall way back in 1960. Prior to the camp we were told that the newly promoted lance-jack who led the Top Platoon would be promoted to full corporal at the end of the week (THE week, Derek - you didn't crap into a second week unless you crapped alone!). Notwithstanding the presence and efforts of a dirty-brassed, creased-uniformed, greasy-plated, sweet-consuming, wrapper-chucking, Basic Section candidate for the Awkward Squad, our platoon beat off all opposition. Clearly we weren't MEANT to! And rather than keep to the original agreement they decided to promote ALL the Lance-corporals! Y'see, Derek's right - not a gentleman so "they" couldn't allow it!!! No wonder I'm bitter!! (David M)
Pirbright: At the end of each camp we were required to return all of the Army issue goods to the Army quartermaster who 'ticked' in to make sure that nothing was missing. The time came when we found just before handing in that two blankets were missing.
Capt Guy called in Cpl Maltby. 'Cpl Maltby we're two blankets missing'. 'yes sir' he replied (Cpl Maltby was so polite!). 'Can you do something about it Cpl?' 'Yes sir'. A well executed salute. Cpl M marched smartly to the QM tent saluted the regular officer marched past him to the pile of already checked in blankets, picked up two, saluted the officer again and back to our lines where they were added to our pile and then checked in at the QM tent - result no shortages. Just shows what can be done with initiative and understanding the obsession
of the Army with saluting. We were proud of you that day Cpl M. He may deny it but I know cos I was there! (Brian Boswell)
I've found another report on the Sheep Incident. This is a correction from P.C. E. Davenport of Wennington Police who states:
....and in my previous report I mistakenly referred to the
source of information quoted by Lt. Morris as L/Cpl Maltby
D. I am informed by the aforementioned Lt. Morris that the correct name is Cpl Maltby D. and in this respect I respectfully request that
the records section file this correction along with my original investigative
report..... etc. etc. Signed
1) Although Peter
Cowling and I have exchanged posts about
2) Yep, now you mention it 2nd Lt Saunders was on that camp and HE hasn't been mentioned before in relation to the CCF and the Pirbright camp!
3) Can't remember the exact date but it might have been from September '61, the school CCF WAS affiliated to the Essex Regiment and this DID entitle us, not only to wear the coveted Pegasus badges (Cadets was really a glorified Boy Scouts!) but also to undertake basic parachute training.
4) Wennington Police?
Now that's interesting! All along
we've assumed it was
5) The sheep. This "police report" is essentially the story that we persuaded Scrooge Morris to swallow. The cadet (forgotten who he was) firing next to me (with the benefit of "extra" ammunition from my secret store) had amused himself for most of the afternoon by trying to clip the top of the armour plated butts. This caused a wonderfully noisy ricochet that scared the hell out of Basic Section rookies in the butts’ party.
Somehow we persuaded Scrooge that it must have been one of these ricochets! Now I don't think THIS information is in the archive...so where are you getting it from?
Army files? Surely the same applies to these as to census information. 100 years have to pass - I'm not THAT old!!
Anyway you weren't even in the cadets - were you? I'm mighty suspicious!!!
I thought I'd got you with the "L/Cpl" bit in the police report! I'd pounced on it with a joyous "A-ha!" - but the later correction leads me to believe it was probably dopey Scrooge who got it wrong in the first instance! (DGM)
You have to be very careful you see. Now David I see that
you were at
And what about Sgt. "Swanky" White of the Essex Regiment, (I don’t know why they called him that) you remember him?
His height is listed as 5.5" which means he was just about at the minimum for Army entrance. Was he that small? To jog your memory, at one time he trained the Cadre course at RLS from what I can gather this was the NCO training course. Any recollections? (Mike Merry)
The Army Section badges displayed are hereby all verified and their origins are correctly identified. The "Half Clover" (together with a later-earned "Full Clover") signified the passing of a qualification called Certificate A, Parts 1 and 2, being tests for basic military knowledge, badges of rank, expertise with the Bren Gun, map reading, drill etc. (David Gregory)