RLS SCOUTING –5th, 7th & 12th ROMFORDS, 1st SQUIRRELS’ HEATH, 3RD CHADWELL HEATH  also BOYS’ BRIGADE & Y.M.C.A.

 

 

THE 7TH ROMFORD BOY SCOUTS

 

Funny but there was no cadet force of any description during the war. Just the 7th Romford boy scouts. What ever happened to it? (Eddie Pond)

J. B.Warren ('Bunny'), who was an assistant Leader for the 12th Romfords, wrote to Robert Priddy:

" Eddie Pond asks what happened to the 7th. He, and others, may be interested in a brief history. The 7th was founded soon after the school's foundation in 1923, with 'Gussy' Hartley as Scoutmaster. (It is almost certainly his keen interest in Scouting which accounted for the lack of a cadet force during the war, but one was started by his successor almost as soon as he arrived, much to the disgust of the staff). By 1929 the 7th had grown so large that it was divided into four (yes, four) Troops, the 7th, the 9th. 11th and 12th. The 9th and 11th closed in 1938/9 and did not restart. (The title '11th Romford' was eventually reallocated to a Group at Rush Green). The final Scoutmaster of the 12th, Peter Aylett, (he was not an old Libertian but his Dada, Jim Aylett, Assistant District Commissioner, was and was a member of the 12th). Peter, I say, left in 1969 to go and manage a fruit farm at Thaxted and the 12th then merged with the 7th. They too had leader problems later and closed in 1978. (As an aside, I transferred to the 1st Harold Hill in 1952 because Gussy's successor, whilst happy to have me as an assistant, wanted a member of his own staff in the 'top job', John Morley having retired, and I felt that Harold Hill would be more challenging. In the event, the new head's wish could not be sustained by his successor, as will be seen with Peter Aylett above).

"The Marathons you mention were annual County events in which teams form all over Essex biked a given distance, finding an overnight camp site for themselves, writing a log of the journey and submitting to an inspection (persons and bikes) at the end. I took part in several as a Scout, and as a leader became involved in the judging. The event was very popular, more than a hundred teams usually competing, and it became highly competitive, winners and runners-up being separated by half-a-point. To be fair to everyone, finishing points moved around the county but I can remember more than a few. Billericay you mention, and this is probable, as the husband of an Assistant County Commissioner had a farm between B. and Wickford. Danbury Park was another, and I remember Lord Raleigh's estate at Terling. Brentwood School playing field was another venue {Romford teams had to take a very roundabout route that year!} One year it must have been somewhere near Colchester, as Romford District hired a furniture van to get boys and bikes back home at a reasonable time: normally we cycled back home again after a provided tea. We must have been tough in those days - or mad.

In my capacity as Archivist for Romford Scout Association, I have in my care a selection of log books and minute books of the 12th Romford from the 1930s, 40a and 50s (including some Patrol logs). Unfortunately, these do not form a continuous series, but I would be happy to search to try to answer any specific enquiries. The collection also includes a register of members in a book which I recall was presented by the Parents' Committee (therefore between 1943 and 1952). A serious attempt was made to reconstruct earlier years (but there are not nearly enough from pre-war days), but after it was presented it seems to have been kept up-to-date almost to the end. Only dates of joining listed, no leaving dates, and obviously addresses given will now be wildly out-of-date). There are also two Court of Honour minute books for the 7th Romford, covering the period 1940-1947.

Just to get your personal camp memories straight, I list the dates of the camps in the late 'forties and early 'fifties.

1948 Ireland (Before your time, I was in the army)

1949 Devon - Coombe-in-Teignhead (I was still in the army)

1950 Brynbach, vaguely near Denbigh, North Wales.

1951 Youlbury, Oxford (the one where you were PL)

1952 South Devon (you weren't at that one)

By 1953 I was with the 1st Harold Hill and lost track, and the logbooks mentioned don't help. (J.B.Warren - 'Bunny')

If anyone wants to take up Bunny's offer of information below, one can e-mail me. (Robert Priddy)                                                        

7TH ROMFORD SCOUT TROOP (from the 1954 School magazine)

During the past year, the troop has continued to flourish, and a number of scouts have obtained first and second class badges. There was no troop camp- at Easter, but a number of groups held their own camps. At Whitsun, the whole troop camped at St. Vincent's Hamlet. Good weather made many scouting activities possible.

At the end of the Summer term, we regretfully bade farewell to Mr. Bradshaw who had led the troop for six years. We will remember his enthusiasm and energy, and sincerely wish him success in his new appointment. In his place, we welcome Mr. Carpenter.

Summer camp was held at Walcombe near Torquay. Mr. Moore, the senior Scout-master was in charge, and everybody enjoyed a splendid camp. The swimming was very good owing to the excellent weather. Visits were made to such places as Buckfast Abbey, Widdecombe and Totnes.

The 7th Romford were still going in 1963 when I joined the RLS. I stayed for a couple of terms before the presence of the antichrist (aka Malc Smith) became too much to bear, especially during games of British bulldog. (Harry - Roger Harlow)

When I was in the 7th Romford, the 'senior' scouts used to go down the Dene Holes.  These are/were situated in Kent, county of my residence, and I am pretty sure close by Maidstone, the town of my residence. Dene Holes were built by the Romans to extract chalk or make storage for something (alcoholic porridge?).  About 10 ft shaft, 60 feet deep (requiring three metal etriers to reach the bottom) they open into two trefoils i.e. six dry caves, each showing adze marks.  Mentioned in the doomsday book so I am told (a copy which I do not have to hand).  There were a number of these holes and we scouts used to did away to join them up at the bottom, for some odd reason.  It gave us a chance to camp away from home and visit the pub. (David Silverside)

Pob's real Christian name was Robin, I remember asking him why he was called Pob, and not Robin, I think he just didn't like the name Robin. There was an assistant scout master who was a prefect in 64-65, Pete Storey, does anyone remember him? (Rick Tolbart)

7th Romford Boy Scouts: An opportunity to return to that favourite topic! The 7th. was always destined to be superior to that other lot, the amorphous 12th, or so I was told and firmly believed. The long low hut together with all that went on therein had that air of mystery , surpassed only in later life by the OL's Masonic Lodge (which I understand is not actually a building at all).

You must have been there, Alan, in the 1941 or thereabouts when I was being 'tried out' by the Glorious 7th. to see whether I was suitable scouting material. There were 4 teams ('patrols'?), each had its own area within the hut to carry out its patrol activities.. Can anyone remember the names of the Patrols? I was allocated to the one with Stan Hall, the only scout I can remember by name; he was delegated to teach me the basics for admission. (John C. Jennings)

 

Now that everybody seems to suffer from asthma, has Tom (Edmund) Little shaken off his? I remember a bizarre Whitsun camp when the Woodpecker patrol set up their tent in whatever that extra bit of Bedford Park was called but then Messrs. Little, Laycock and Course were all invalided home after a day or two, wheezing horribly. Leaving Peter Oval and myself looking at more porridge oats than we could ever eat. (Ian Davidson)

Yes, I remember that camp now, although I'd prefer to forget it. I hadn't realised that porridge oats were included in the suffering it engendered. Accept my belated sympathy. I do remember you kindly offering to carry my bag during that scout trip to Belgium. I think you were worried lest I collapse again in a heap. I was grateful for your offer. (Tom Little)

An opportunity to return to that favourite topic! The 7th was always destined to be superior to that other lot, the amorphous 12th, or so I was told and firmly believed. The long low hut together with all that went on therein had that air of mystery , surpassed only in later life by the OL's Masonic Lodge (which I understand is not actually a building at all).

You must have been there, Alan, in the 1941 or thereabouts when I was being 'tried out' by the Glorious 7th. to see whether I was suitable scouting material. There were 4 teams ('patrols'?), each had its own area within the hut to carry out its patrol activities.. Can anyone remember the names of the Patrols? I was allocated to the one with Stan Hall, the only scout I can remember by name; he was delegated to teach me the basics for admission. (John C. Jennings)

John C Jennings posted: "The 7th. was always destined to be superior to that other lot, the amorphous 12th, or so I was told and firmly believed."

Then we are asked "Can anyone remember the names of the Patrols?"

Well, I can't. If your lot were less amorphous, you should know the basic structure of the troop! I reckon you had the Weasels, the Ground rats and the Perishers!

We in the glorious 12th had Beavers, Woodpeckers and Badgers… and we also had Bunny (Warren!), So there!

J.C.J. also noted "There were 4 teams ('patrols'?), each had its own area within the hut to carry out its patrol activities" Enterprising lot, were you? Patrolling each your indoor corner! Huh!

Gingganggoolies to you lot, and with wooden woggles on! (Robert Priddy)

If you saw our old Scoutmaster in full 1941 regalia, knobbly knees and all, that would frighten you off, young Robert. Yah! But I'm still waiting to learn the real names of the 7th Romford Patrols.  More impressive than woodpeckers and things, I'll bet. Was that the reason your area became called the Bird Sanctuary in later years? (John C. Jennings)

THE 5TH ROMFORD SCOUTS

 

The 5th Romford scout troop met at the Holy Cross church hall in Hornchurch, about half a mile on the Hornchuch side of Roneo Corner, on the corner of Park Lane. During the mid fifties the scout districts were reorganised at it became the 5th Squirrels Heath. I was in it from cub age (1949) until I went to university in 1961. When I came to RLS I did consider joining one of the school troops but my ties to my home troop were too strong. The only RLS students I knew of who went to the 5th apart from Brian Tilbrook, were Alan Wright, who went on to be a lecturer in Geology at Birmingham, and lives fairly close to me; and Alan Watson.
There were more RLS boys in the 1st Romford (Squirrels Heath) who met 100 yards up from us at Kims Hall: Bill Bowman and Roger Ellis, and I believe Dave Maltby, although I would not have noticed Dave as he was so quiet. (Bill Groves - 53-61)


I must own up to being a cub in said pack during the early 60s. Reading the recent messages from Hon Mems, I didn't realise the connection with 5th Romford until Bill pointed it out. Bill: There were more RLS boys in the 1st Romford (Squirrels Heath) who met 100 yards up from us at Kims Hall. Bill and others from previous years may be able to shed some light on why by the time I joined the cubs, the scouts had been moved or merged with the Kim's Hall troup. The Holy Cross vicar of that time, Peter Thompson, was a pacifist and it used to be said that he banned the scouts from using his hall because they were too closely associated with the armed forces.  I wonder if that was true.
The cubs did however continue to meet in the Holy Cross Hall, a ramshackle wooden structure on the Park Lane side of the church grounds.  It was burnt down in the early seventies.  I don't recall any RLS boys at Kims Hall scouts when I was promoted (complete with Leaping Wolf) certainly no-one in my year. (Tim Knights - 65-73)

 

You have reminded me Tim, of this incident, that I had almost forgotten. Before Peter Thompson became vicar of Holy Cross, we had church parades in the church, as was normal with church affiliated groups. However, the new vicar refused to have the scout flags and the Union Jack in the church, which was embarrassing, particularly as his son, I believe, joined the group. This was 1953-4ish. The scout master (Reg Lane) could not accept this, and so we had to go to St. Andrews church for church parades, and sit through dire sermons from a very venerable canon Calthorpe?? From then on the group and Holy Cross became more and more detached. A new church hall was built, but I do not think the 5th Squirrels Heath were allowed to use it. Was Reg Lane still involved when you were there Tim? Do you know if the group still exists? When they were combined, I wonder what coloured shirts they wore, as the Kims Hall group had blue shirts with a yellow scarf whereas the 5th wore khaki with maroon scarves. (Bill Groves (- 953-61)

 

Bill, I'm not sure I can add much more to the story, but I can try to deal with some of your questions.  I agree that what we knew as the New Hall was not available to the cubs.  The 5th Squirrels Heath Cubs were supervised by people with the traditional nicknames, I don't know if Reg Lane was involved.  I think we had maroon scarves in both cubs and scouts.  My memories of Kims Hall and the scouts in general are pretty vague, and after a couple of years I gave up.  I'm not even sure if the scouts were still known as 5th Squirrels Heath at that point, or had been absorbed into the Kims Hall troop.

The church parade issue was part of the folklore (i.e. gossip) that I can remember, and was one of many strange aspects of Peter Thompson's ministry, but he was certainly a very deep thinking, kind, and sincere chap.  I think what kept the church parade issue in people's minds, even years later, was the wonderful stained glass window (was it "The Pathfinder"?) which included a scout like image, and was one of the few eye-catching aspects of an otherwise gloomy and unremarkable church building. (Tim Knights 65-73)

 

Bill wrote: "However, the new vicar refused to have the scout flags and the Union Jack in the church, which was embarrassing, particularly as his son, I believe, joined the group. This was 1953-4 ish. The scout master (Reg Lane) could not accept this, and so we had to go to St. Andrews church for church parades, and Sit through dire sermons from a very venerable canon Calthorpe??"

This is absolutely true and was always attributed to the Rev. PSY's pacifism.  There was also an element of sexism in the decision as he made no objection to the Brownies attending church parade and presenting their little triangular banners to decorate the east wall during the service. Presumably the demure little brownies represented no threat to male dominated armed forces!  Shows how unworldly was our vicar!  Perhaps, being an avid anti-nuclear campaigner and Aldermaston-walker, he suspected the 5th Romford of stockpiling warheads in their woggles?

Small world - while Bill was attending scouts in the old church hall on Friday evenings I was no more than twenty yards away attending choir practice and never even realised Bill was a member of those scouts! There was the occasional dispute, at kicking out time, between the scouts and the choristers (boys will be boys!) but neither Bill nor I (busy being far too quiet!!) was ever involved in such unseemly behaviour.

Bill said:"A new church hall was built, but I do not think the 5th Squirrels Heath were allowed to use it."

The new church hall was sacrosanct and FAR too precious for use by those unruly scouts.  I believe that the scouts were the only group in the parish that continued to use the old hall!

I'm not too sure if either of the Rev's sons were in the scouts.  Stephen was definitely in the cubs but I couldn't see Edward allowing cub or scout discipline into his life!  (Perhaps I malign him unfairly!)  However, if either of them did join, there would have been a clash of interests because both were in the choir and would have been otherwise occupied on Friday evenings. (DGM)

 

THE 1ST SQUIRREL’S HEATH SCOUTS

 

Roger Ellis (1955-62?) was my patrol leader (Peewit patrol) in the 1st Squirrel's Heath scouts. (DGM)

THE 12TH ROMFORD SCOUTS

 

The 7th was serious the 12th wasn't. I was in the 12th which to be frank was a joke as a scout troop but great fun. We spent all summer in the pool and went on camping trips to north Wales with our leader Pobbles who was a forensic scientist with Scotland Yard or a good liar - these trips are not to be confused with the Herbie Bog Trots. I think it was my first scout trip that got completely flooded out in Nant Gwynant in 67/68 all I associate it with is the Beatles 'Judie in the Sky with Diamonds' which we sang in our ambulance, happy days - any old 12th Romfords out there? (Greg Cooper)

The only 12th Romford camp I remember was in the early 50's at 'Colonel Lockwood's estate' near Abridge.  The road-frontage had one of those beautiful old, very long, brick walls that nobody could afford to built now. Can't remember whether it was a Troop or Badger Patrol event. One clear recall is one which my Granddaughter would describe as "That's gross, Granddad!!"  This posting provides opportunity for confession.

I and a.n.o. went to the milking shed one very early sunny morning to collect milk for breakfast.   The farm worker ladling milk from an urn into our billy or dixie cans must have had a cold or maybe hay-fever.  As he dispensed, a drip under his nose grew increasingly pendulous and mucous. We watched, appalled and fascinated, as it swung to and fro in the early morning light until, by force of gravity, it plopped into our receptacle! Lacking the 'savoir-faire' to complain, a.n.o. and returned to camp with the milk, we agreed that we shouldn't upset others by telling them. We both skipped our morning cereal and tea! I belated apologise to any HM's who may have been on that camp and hope they're well. Bon-appetite! (Terry Hadert)

I still maintain that by the time got into the 12th it had lost all links with Baden P. However, one thing I have found eternally useful was a method for communicating the presence of mud on a night hike - the first to encounter the mud sings out "Igooo" to which the rest of the line sing out "igooo mungus" to which the first then sings "Igoooooo" again but an octave or two up and so on, stopping once the last man has passed through the mud. My family have got the hang of this quite nicely in Shenfield High Street. (Greg Cooper)

The 12TH Romford scout troop was attached to RLS and met at one of two concrete bunker like buildings along the edge of the tree-lined sports area. Another was used by the 7'th Romford troop.
The leader of 12'th Romford Scouts was the classics master John Morley. Assistant Scout leader: 'Bunny' Warren. Queen Scout: Crowder:
12th Romford Scout camps: There was a largish troop of four patrols with 4 or 5 members in each. The informal atmosphere and freedoms were a welcome change from school. The annual summer holiday scout camps were a good way for me of relieving the boredom of being mainly with my elderly aunts and uncles.
The first I went to - in 1949 - was at Coombeinteignhead (last part pron. 'tinhead'), a village near the mouth of the River Teign near to Newton Abbot. Some 12th Romford scouts I went to camps with included Mick Halpin, Malcolm Beck., Brian Peatey, Dudley Clarke, (Brian?) Denton, and Malcolm Pattrick. There were at least a dozen 12'th Romfords at the camp in Coombe-in-Teignhead that lasted two whole warm weeks. This must have been 1949, with John Morley as leader (I recall with what anxiety I and my tender feet went there, hoping not to be debagged or something as initiation!). The camp was above a long sloping field at the foot of which ran the River Teign (down into which Malcolm Beck (later killed in a car accident) ran followed by the swarm of wasps that ran up his axe-handle and surrounded him). The accident occurred: while out on wood fag, he sank his hatchet into a dead tree trunk and hit a wasps' nest. The wasps attacked him en masse and he had to run into the river to get them off. He had over 30 stings and was in a serious condition for several days.

We went down in a lift to a very deep limestone 'pothole' cave somewhere near Torquay where Neolithic man had lived and where a fossilised skull of a huge cave bear was to be seen stuck in the rock where it had died. I have since discovered that this amazing maze of underground caves deep, deep in the limestoneis  known as Kent`s Cavern (1 mile from Torquay), The caves were used by early Stone Age hunters, implements and remains of both human and animals had been discovered there, including those of extinct animals including the mammoth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the giant deer and the woolly rhinoceros! Perhaps the most interesting place one can visit for those things in the UK. First excavated in the 1880s, I think.
There was also catamaran paddling on the sea at Torquay, a zoo, visits to cafes and a bus trip to Widdicombe (but no fair, no Uncle Tom - only exorbitant tourist bric-a-brac).
There was singing and fooling around the camp-fire in the evenings, initiation ceremonies. I had to eat a sandwich comprised of mustard, cocoa, sausage, jam and so on. Mick Halpin and Bixby (?) had to black up, then sing and dance around the fire in grass skirts. There were also long, painful treks with heavy rucksacks and staves.(Robert Priddy)

As I've told previously my peak responsibilty level at RLS was rising to the dizzy heights of 'Badger Patrol' Leader with 12th Romford.  In the late 60's, then working in Basildon, I was being interviewed for the post of 'Youth Counsellor' with a Community School in Cumberland - then a separate County.  The Selection Panel was chaired by Sir Gordon Bessey, Cumberland Director of Education.   All seemed to be going OK, with the panel's profession-related questions  then Sir Gordon, who I later found was involved in Scouting, asked, unexpectedly, whether I'd ever been in the Scout Movement.   My answer about the 12th Romford experience seemed to tip scales and be a watershed in the Chairman's and Selection panel's demeanour.  I was ultimately offered and accepted the position in beautiful West Cumberland - a job which was interesting, enjoyable and unexpectedly opened up other career opportunities. So thanks to the 12th for the experiences offered in School years (I even remember how to bake a hedgehog in clay!) and for its serendipitous career help! (Terry Hadert)

I was in the 12th Romford Scout Troop with Mr. Morley and `Bunny` Warren (who may join up in RLSOB some day still). In 1950, the annual summer camp was in North Wales at ‘Brynbach’, in a wooded dale by a riverlet on a very isolated farm in Denbighshire - Cyffylliog or thereabouts in the Clocaenog forest near the Brenig reservoir. The leader was a young man called 'Bunny' Warren, who was at R.L.S. from 1943. He included on our camp a patrol from 'the other lot', the 7th Romford's. There was a good deal of climbing, or rather heavy going up steep hills. Milk had to be fetched very early each morning from the farm about a mile off. The chief attraction was the bus tour around the castles, the smallest house in Britain (at Conway Castle) and bathing on the beach at Rhyl.
At Easter in 1951, the camp was at Boar's Hill, close to Oxford, in a large wood in which was also a big, untiled swimming pool. There were other scout troops there and the camp fire meetings were very large. Apart from all the mainstream songbook songs, we learned there the fascinating American ditty 'Cocaine Bill and Morphine Sue, were walkin' down Fifth Avenue, singin' Honey have a (sniff), have a (sniff) on me, C'mon, have a (sniff) on me... etc." Apart from the usual tests and trials concocted by 'Bunny' Warren, the outings were to Oxford colleges and to the Thames for canoeing. Bixby and Dodds managed to capsize a canoe while getting into it (both stepping on the side) and fell into the drink. The boatman saved them with his hook. (Robert Priddy)

The 12th Romfords included (now honourable Treasurer of RLSOB etc.) Brian Dodds and David Muldoon, seen propping up the Reunion bar with their middle-aged spreads.

David Muldoon (Badgers) remembered something I have only vaguely recall, that at some camp I decided to chase a cow to round it up for milking the idea being to milk it by hitting its udders with the stick - as we had nothing to put in our tea. I never succeeded, it seems. And I asked Brian (Beavers) if he remembered canoeing on the Thames at Oxford. He said ‘Apparently I sank the boat!’ I told him he and John Bixby did it together by stepping simultaneously on the side. Both fell in and the boat went to the bottom. The boatman hooked them both out with his long 'bargepole', the ‘event of the day’. Brian retorted, “But do you remember the boatman’s daughter? That was the event. Beautiful!”  I did not at the time, but now I recall that John and Brian were soaked and the daughter had helped the two 13-year olds dry out in the hut etc. It obviously made a very big impression on Brian, which I seem to recall now too. (Robert Priddy)

The Denbigh 12th Romford summer camp (1950) was made beside a stream/small river amid many saplings and trees in a narrow, dampish vale. One patrol from `the other lot` the 7th Romford`s, came along with us. The mosquitoes organised a welcoming committee. Some one had to do 'milk fag' every morning, climbing about 2 miles (it seemed!) up to a farm to fetch milk and sometimes also eggs. We went on a hike up to the top of what seemed a semi-mountain (but now seems but a small hill, from my Norwegian perspectives), up along a falling riverlet to above a dam to look down on a large reservoir, which I think supplied water to Birmingham or Manchester. We also took a long, long coach trip around North Wales - I recall Betts-y-Coed,  seeing the 'smallest house in Britain' , both Caenaervon and Conway Castles, a distant view of Snowdon and a trip to Rhyl, where floats were hired and we paddled out etc. It was a tiring day. We had also called in at Llanfairp. (I'll not spell it all out, but I could from memory as I trained to memorise it then), There, an old bearded fellow in national costume with a thick Welsh accent gave us a potted history of the injustices of the English to the Welsh and the danger they represented for the Welsh tongue! And how the Welsh women's costume with tall black conical hats had been taken by the English to represent witches. (Robert Priddy)

12th Romford Scouts: I belonged to it in an earlier era (52-59) and it was Serious in those days. There was keen rivalry with the 7th Romford, especially in 'volleyball'. Although I have always disliked walking I went on scout marathons and the venturer hike and went in for all sorts of badges - both the ones you have to pay for and those you send off for (I used to have one that said 'I was a scout in Coronation Year' - they must be very rare. Mine disintegrated in the washing machine).

We also had a camp at Nant Gwynant and I remember making a bivouac and sleeping in it - it was a good job it didn't rain. We went up Snowdon and didn't lose anyone. Bunny Warren was the scoutmaster in 1952, I think. Kendall (chemistry) took over some time. Also went to the Jamboree in Sutton Coldfield in 1957, but in a makeshift troop of extras. (Mike Butterworth)

I was in the 12th, from 64-around 67 (usual reason to leave, discovered girls and alcohol), and would not agree it was a 'joke', Pob Sharp was a thoroughly nice bloke (to quote Tim N-B-D) and was keen to teach the boys scouting ideals, without being a fanatic about it. I learnt a lot of useful skills (first aid, knots - no kidding, useful in my boating holidays) and sadly also picked up a smoking habit while on summer camp in Jersey in 1966. Thanks for that, Rick Blackburn! (R. Tolby)

 (Coombeinteignhead) would have been in spitting distance, I am sure, of the hostelry that now rejoices in the name "The Coombe Cellars".  Little to do, apparently, with the cool, cavernous, below ground-level accommodation wherein one would store bottles of alcoholic beverage.  These were clay "cellars" where ball clay extracted from the various quarries that riddle the area around Kingsteignton was carted by road to be stored pending the arrival of suitable river transport to further its journey on to the port of Teignmouth. These days the two hyphens have been removed from the name to make one of the widest place-name signs in Devon - but not a patch, of course, on Llanfairpwyllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. (David Maltby)

Keith said: "Thanks - no, this was a master who "taught" chemistry when I was there 57/59 before moving on."  If this is the humourless swine who was scoutmaster of 12th Romford scouts, then I am pretty sure his first name was George. (Peter/Chris Pearson)

12th Romford Scouts: I can recall Robin 'Pob' Sharp - him of Scotland Yard  - as Scout Leader ably supported by Pete Storey & Dave Palmer with Allan Wallis as senior henchman (patrol leader) about 1964-69.

Most lunchtimes were spent in 'the hut' attempting to play snooker on the smallest table I've ever seen constantly moving kit around the hut to allow demon shots to be played. (Richard Blackburn)

12TH ROMFORD SCOUT TROOP (from the 1954 School magazine)

Although the membership of the Troop is still not very high, it has increased a little during the past year. The troop has made good general progress and many badges have been gained.

Individual patrol camps were held at Easter and Whitsun, which were both well attended. In contrast to the last Summer Camp, the weather was fine for all camps this year. The Summer Camp was held at Hafod Llkffog, a farm near Llyn Gwynant. Half the troop climbed Snowdon and everyone enjoyed himself immensely.

 A troop party was held in April when the Seniors provided sausage and mash for the rest of the troop. Two teams entered for the County Marathon but, due to inexperience, they only came tenth and twenty-seventh. The Troop came third in the Romford District Swimming Gala and also entered for the District Sports and the Franklin Shield without much success. H.A.T.

3RD CHADWELL HEATH TROOP

 

Terry went on to mention being in the Badger patrol. Believe it or not I was a scout once (and not joke, the Beaver patrol). Being Catholic there were always prohibitions about joining any group were they added that little extra bit on to the Lords Prayer. So, eventually, St. Bede's in Chadwell Heath started its own troop, the 3rd Chadwell Heath Troop. Our scoutmaster was an ex-army and Territorial officer. He was used to dealing with troops of men, not boys. Anyway, because we were a Catholic troop we had to be different. Our uniforms were dark blue serge. Very hot in summer. We ordered all the
basic equipment, wide brimmed hats, staves, socks and the tabs that went with them etc. and then went up to London to buy a few more things. Of course, there wasn't one badge or patrol leader’s stripe amongst us and our six foot staves were the center of attention on the tube. Needless to say we were not a success. No one ever won a badge in the year the troop lasted. We went camping once to Navestock where the owner of a pub lent us a field. We travelled in the back of a garbage truck and arrived to put up the tents late one evening. Of course, no one had a sleeping bag and we were freezing at nights. Some boys built a fire in a pyramid tent and it caught fire!
We went on a paper chase (no environmental problems in those days) and the "Hares" of which I was one, finished up at the Post Office in Brentwood. We waited two hours but no one else turned up and we eventually found out that they had followed a false trail and kept finding more and more paper which they thought we had dropped. It turned out to be a band of gypsies who were quite untidy!
We eventually went back on the Sunday afternoon telling each other what a great time we had had. But that really wasn't true. The Troop didn't last much longer. The assistant scout master was a staunch member of the church, however after the camping trip one of the younger boys while out shopping with his mother, told her he knew what was in those blue boxes in the chemists. He proceeded to quote the slang name for this women’s product and his mother nearly had a heart attack. He admitted that while on the camping trip they had gone to a local chemists to buy sweets and when they asked the Assistant Scout Master what was in those strange blue boxes he out and told them. Big scandal (nothing like in the church these days though!) Shame that, because he was just about at our level as far as knowing anything about scouting (which was O, and a decent fellow. hat just about did for the troop and we disbanded soon after.   So much for scouting! (Mike Merry)

BOY'S BRIGADE

 

Was anybody apart from me in the Boys Brigade. I was in the 1st Romford Company and we had rivals in the 7th and 12th Romford. Probably the main football rivals were 1st Cranham. We were based in Western Road, Romford.

Our home ground was opposite the London Country Bus garage. Football was played between teams of 11 to 16 year olds, so scores of 27-0 were not uncommon when the older teams played the younger ones. (Chris Fribbins)

Do you remember Bob Chandley, Kevin and Graham Earle; the interminable bugle blowing, storms in tea cups, jumpers for goal posts and that famous evening when we were called "a bunch of cant's" (at least I think that's what they said) by a group of skinheads. "It's cant's like us that make priggs like you stand to attention" said the Fribbins....didn't he?  How we laughed and how to this day I still treasure the memory of your brain over brawn. (Andrew Stoddart)

I was in 1st Sqirrels Heath, based in Hornchurch Road, not far from Roneo Corner. Dave was in a different troop, but we did go on a combined camp. This was on an island in the River Thames at Marlow. Dave, being considerably larger than me was able to be served in a local off-licence and I have fond memories of smuggling rather large quantities of cider back to camp (and even fonder memories of the consumption). Another camp near Brentwood (was it called Thriftwood?) involved cans of long life being an integral part of the larder. Well they did teach us to be prepared. (Richard Hall)

I "graduated" to the YMCA after the cubs and scouts at 5th (subsequently merged) with 1st Squirrels Heath who used to meet at Kim’s Hall on the Hornchurch Rd. At the Scouts, Richard Hall was there too as was Steve Newlyn (Colin's older brother) and I think Colin too. When they built the swanky new YMCA at Roneo Corner (about 1969/70 I reckon) there was a bit of a migration, lured by the giant sports hall and other mod cons. I joined a group which met on a Friday night, mostly to play 5 a-side and volleyball specifically for under 15's. Then we sort of hung around there like a youth club and had discos at weekends. I got on to a committee (sort of liaison thing) and through a bloke with halitosis called Cliff we talked them into letting us organise an event which turned into the Good Habit gig, and I did most of it. I guess I was about 16. It was a very important thing in my life but only for about two years. It's where I first encountered girls. Also, to have a social life outside the RLS was (for me) a very healthy thing. Very soon thereafter we also discovered the pub, the Crown, all within a tight geographical circle. So that was me growing up really. Cubs-Scouts-YMCA-Girls-Crown. (Andy Ellis))

…the song went: "Here comes the Boys Brigade, all covered in marmalade"

"The marmalade was lousy, and so was the Boys Brigade"

Their uniforms I recall were very flashy, dark blue with silver accoutrements and with "Sam Browne" type belts etc. Do they still exist? (Mike Merry)

One distinguishing item of BB uniform that Mike Merry omitted was the Pill Box.   The two verses of the derisory song, as I recall, (sung to one of the bugle-call- tunes) are:

"Here comes the Boys' Brigade

All covered in marmalade.

A twopenny-ha'penny pill-box

And half-a-yard of braid.

 

"Here comes the Boys' Brigade

All covered in marmalade.

The marmalade is mouldy

And so is the Boys' Brigade!"

 

Funny how those stupid jingles (probably learned as a 12th Romford Scout) stick in the memory - as the advertising industry knows full-well!

Mike's question. as to whether the BB still exists, sent me on a web-search.  The BB seems very active in the UK and also, at least, in  Australia, NZ and Singapore.   With HM the Queen as Patron, it vaunts itself as 'The Oldest Uniformed Youth Organisation in the World' (founded in 1883).  It's informative web-site shows a range of current national and international events and competitions (including, of course, Band Contests!)

Very-much Christian-based , 3 Companies operate in Romford (the 1st at Romford United Reform Church and the 2nd and 10th  at Romford and Chase X Baptist Church respectively).  This seemed to support my impression of the BB's association with Reform Religions (I seem to recall it based at Romford South St Congregational Church).   However I was surprised that  the current 2nd Hornchurch operates from St Andrew's Church, which is, I think, Anglican.  (Terry Hadert)

P.S. I should have clarified that the Boy's Brigade 'pill-box' , to which I referred, was a 'Pill-Box hat' - not a protective item of cricket-gear! (Terry Hadert)

As a declared 1st Romford Boys Brigade member, I thought I would chip in. The Pill Box was phased out in the late 60s/early 70s and replaced with the army style beret. The uniform was white sash and brown leather belt with BB buckle. I think the sash, belt and hat were replaced later with the blue

shirt which was more like the Scouts. They were a Christian organisation and as such were based at both 'non-conformist' and Anglican churches. A major patron was Cliff Richard (who I got to see at a special event at Wembley Empire Pool!), days of 'Congratulations' and pre-'Devil Woman'.

The 1st Romford were based at the Congregational Church in South Street (next to the Snooker Hall and the Old Post Office) it relocated down Western Road and later became the United Reform Church. The 1st had a better equipped gym than the school (pity I was useless at it). but they did have a tarmac, floodlit football/tennis area at the back of the church and played Boys Brigade league football at Cottons Park (but teams were 11-16 year old, so teams with more older age members used to dominate - usually mainly Cranham or 1st Romford - but not when I was there). Scores of 25-0 were not uncommon. The knockout Cup Final was held at Brooklands each year.I would go Monday, Wednesday (football practice), Friday and Sunday morning (football on Saturday), it was a hiding place from RLS homework which was not done far more often than done!. We also has a pretty rubbish bugle and drum band (with me on the cymbals!) we entered national band competitions at the Hornchurch Athletics Stadium. There was keen competition between companies with athletics at Hornchurch, cross-country, handball (at Junior Section level) as well as Bible reading (I was the champion at this once). Like scouts there was an annual camp, but I never got to go.

I seem to remember the Romford companies as 1st, 2nd, 7th and 12th (don't know how the others were numbered, we were the first and so did not worry about that). There were also Cabin Boys and Life Boys (Infant and Junior sections) later to become 'Junior Section'.  It was a family thing with

older brothers (my younger brother only got as far as Junior Section). My next eldest brother was a member when 1st Romford made regular appearances at the Albert Hall (Gymnastics, Trampoline) and were invited as special guests to the Girls Brigade event. I only made one appearance at the Albert Hall when the 1st performed with 'Indian Clubs'. (Chris Fribbins)